Donald Trump is pushing for a baby boom.

His administration is considering possible incentives for future mothers, including $5,000 post Partum baby bonus government-funded programs to educate women on their menstrual cycles and a national Medal of motherhood to moms with 6 or more children.

While some are backing the president's baby boom, push.

Others think the baby fever frenzy is part of the rise of prenatal isn't or the belief that a declining birthrate is a threat to the future of society.

Joining us via zoom is Peggy Headington University of Chicago history, professor and author of the book Without Children.

The Long History of Not being a mother.

Professor, Peggy, thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks so much for having me.

I think you might be on mute.

But while you're on needing all at this next question, do you think these incentives are these enough to make people want to have children or more children?

You hear me now.

I cannot hear her now.

What does everybody else hear her?

Seems like we're having maybe a technical issue but if while I've got you like, what are these incentives?

I mean, our day, do you think there are enough to make people want to have children or more children?

>> mean, my it's my perspective that these proposals are really notch from from complex reasons why people aren't having kids.

It take, for example, battled for sure mothers with 6 or more children since it over with really does reward women, it can sort of superficial rates for having children, but he doesn't back that up the real material that they need.

>> Things parental Postpartum support the the program is that your previous guests were talking about like head start added that allow parents to to work full-time while all the while, also having their kids.

And then you did they the baby bonus amount of $5,000.

I mean it.

doesn't even come close to offsetting the cost of having children just to take one example in 2022, the Kaiser Family Foundation found that the average cost of in hospital out of pocket for someone wish ploy or health insurance was almost $3,000 so that that $5,000 is going to not just in the cost birth alone.

So I think that these policies are not only insufficient, but they're kind of mismatch.

But the real needs of parents.

What would you say might incentivize people to have 4 babies.

>> It's a great question.

And a really complicated question because, of course, you know, I mentioned things that would really support parents like parental leave, like postpartum support, like child care subsidies.

And there are countries that have all of like we look to some European countries to France Scandinavian countries, they have all of support of policies and more and and their their fertility rates are roughly the same as ours here in the United States.

I think, you know, it's it's within a Of of ours.

So I think the right question, it's not necessarily how do we get people to have more children?

I don't know that there's policies that have really proven to be effective at moving needle.

I think a part better question to be asking is how do we support parents?

How do we make you know, be active parenting a happier and easier endeavor.

And we know answers to those questions and they are medals.

what you know on the subject of metal to have to be honest, it a little bit of research before before the segment in metals of motherhood are actually something that the that was given before.

>> In Germany to encourage women to have German babies when they're not the party was on the rise.

But this modern-day movement in America are other parts of this movement.

Better skewing majority white, traditional heterosexual family.

>> I think explicitly or implicitly those those themes are concerns about just, for example, the administration policies seem to be centered on a sphere as future American population dropping, that's why they need to have more children.

But at the same time, the administration is actively working to prevent young people who want to come to this country and raise families from entering or deporting people who are already here with their families.

And so I think that that shows us that this isn't just about sort of future population numbers.

It's about what kind of people will in the United States in the future.

And there's there's a long history of this.

If we look back to the late 19th century, the early 20th century, people were also concerned about population.

But at the time the American population was booming, thanks to immigration.

So what they were really concerned about with the fact that white women having fewer children.

And I think, you know, similar concerns about the future racial and ethnic composition of the country are certain play today as well.

>> That said, as you said, birth rates are down according to the CDC, the number of us births from 2022.

2023 went down 2%.

The average number of births declined 2% from 2015 to 2020 vice president JD Vance has called the declining birthrate an existential threat to civilization I mean, if we're to politics aside is a declining birthrate, something to actually be concerned about.

>> I think on a but say, you and again, I would I would just emphasize you know, the U.S. is in a really unique position versus other low fertility countries you know, compared to countries in the state are, for example, that have had very low fertility rates.

The United States has has a very meager population of young people who want to come to the country to, to live here, to work here, to, to raise families here so declining populations may be problem in the future for various places in the world.

That does not have to be our problem and the or you know it.

doesn't have to be only fertility that solves.

>> There's another phenomenon phenomenon that we're seeing gaining momentum on social media.

And that's the rise of the trapped.

Why for traditional on social media content thinking about ballerina farm in North Smith >> influencers who you know are getting famous basically off of, you know, their content about child rearing and cooking and being, you know, that sort of traditional wife structure.

>> Is that popularity sort of a rise of that were sign of the rise in popularity for conservative values.

>> I mean, I think certain extent you know, from a conservative perspective, these news influencers are selling a return to a past where, you know, men were manly enough to be breadwinners and women just got stay home and their feminine domestic spaces.

And, you know, we have their backs.

Best wives, everything, children and taking care of their home course.

These influencers are making that look a lot easier and more beautiful.

was probably experienced by a lot of women in the And that's largely because of money that that is that is invisible in the story that's rarely mentioned.

are, you ballerina Farm.

It's sort funded by family money on her husband's side.

But I just there's an appeal of Sorry, go ahead.

Well, sorry, I was just going to say we're out of time, but I do want to hear what your what you have to say.

We'll just have to do it next time we have this Peggy